Comments on: The World champion has been breaking rules! http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=1517 Fatcs, trivia and opinions on the world of professional cycling Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:57:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.1 By: John E Dunn http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-6032 Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:36:45 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-6032 The fact that Cavendish is clearly not aware of the fine print of the jersey design rules is surely the UCI’s fault. These large bodies seem to be fixated on precision but then appear not to make much effort to communicate that to the riders, teams or fans.

If the UCI wants to be bureaucratic – and there is an argument for it of course – then at least be efficient about it.

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By: Irish Peloton http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5839 Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:20:19 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5839 Thanks Nick.

He’ll be wearing a GB jersey.

Here’s reigning World Champion (and reigning Olympic Champion!) Paolo Bettini at the 2008 Olympic Games.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/olympics08/index.php?id=/photos/2008/olympics08/1/_DSC8187

He wore the same as all his team-mates

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/olympics08/index.php?id=/photos/2008/olympics08/1/DSCN1153

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By: Nick http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5836 Tue, 22 Nov 2011 13:32:22 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5836 Good article and interesting discussion. Anyone know if Cav is allowed to wear the bands at the Olympics? Or will it have to be a GB jersey?

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By: Wataboutya http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5805 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:19:47 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5805 Lol, yea now my spell checks confused.

Irrelevant.

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By: Irish Peloton http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5803 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:59:49 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5803 Now you really have me confused…

Don’t discredit your own discussion by bringing in irrelevant points

This was in regard to the issues you introduced about drugs cheating and licences which i feel is relevant in the topic raised.

Irrelevant or relevant?

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By: Wataboutya http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5802 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:34:37 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5802 “As for your points about commisaires, you’re becoming increasingly confusing. I didn’t bring up these ‘irrelevant points’, you did.”
This was in regard to the issues you introduced about drugs cheating and licences which i feel is relevant in the topic raised.

“Again, I find your point confusing and somewhat contradictory. You said yourself “If it wasnt for brand sponsors we wouldnt have a professional sport”.”
Again, this was mentioned in relation to the UCI imposing rules as part of a commercial right over a brand being the UCI, clash of interest and not fair play, these rules don’t govern sport they serve only commercial ideals.

“When does a minor misdemeanor become ‘blatantly cheating’? ”
Simple, does someone gain an advantage over another competitor from doing so?
Obviously not in the case of a few broken bands.
Obviously they do in the case of not being on the whereabouts register prior to being reissued a licence as you pointed out. This is based on the suspicion of guilt before charge but can have a fall back clause by future testing proving innocence if regularly tested regardless of results, if done at a high level, in my opinion.

I understand the frustrations about the rules if you don’t understand the reasoning behind them. This issue with a nonstandard jersey of a federations own commercial branding is a little weak in argument against through. If anything, it’s an argument to remove the rule to a large degree. In essence, the standardised jersey rule is to make judging easier and more accurate so no one can gain advantage through lack of identification or confusion caused by. That’s where you get 2 volunteers standing at the side of the road watching a 10long by 10 deep pack race for the line in a sprint. However if feel that in the likes of commercial based teams, it’s other interest to stay standardised anyway so any small differences can be accomodated. The clash with a WC jersey over the commercial teams jersey should see the teams design take priority as long as the WC bands can be identified clearly including a white background. Suits both cases well.

As far as the drugs rules are applied, well, much bigger can of worms. How’s your argument for the BOA keeping their own total ban Vs WADA wanting a consistent rule and the BOA removing of the ban?

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By: Irish Peloton http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5801 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:58:25 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5801

Your discussion was with regards to a WC breaking the rules with how he wore the WC bands.
So when did doing so become cheating?

It’s not cheating as such, but it is against the rules, as detailed in the original article.

As for your points about commisaires, you’re becoming increasingly confusing. I didn’t bring up these ‘irrelevant points’, you did.

Furthermore…

By imposing them they are putting commercial rules into the sporting rules and that’s not acceptable. The sport must come first.

Again, I find your point confusing and somewhat contradictory. You said yourself “If it wasnt for brand sponsors we wouldnt have a professional sport”.

As for bringing in a bigger issue about UCI rules. This small discrepancy on Cavendish’s part IS part of the bigger issue. You suggest bending rules should be allowed in the interest of fair play but not where someone blatantly cheats. My over-arcing point is, where do the UCI draw the line? When does a minor misdemeanor become ‘blatantly cheating’? Do they have a number of rules which they are willing to turn a blind eye to? Do they have certain rules which they plan on enforcing but don’t care about the rest?

I don’t expect answers to these questions. I’m merely pointing out the pointlessness of having a set of rules if you pick and choose which ones to enforce and which ones to ignore.

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By: Wataboutya http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5795 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:20:32 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5795 Actually, I completely missed the fact he has stripes on his black shorts. Here a quote form the man himself not long after winning the worlds.

So black shorts with World Champ stripes is illegal. I can only use white ones with the stripes. ABSOLUTE NO! I will use my team shorts.
13 Oct

And then as your pic shows, he has stripes on his team shorts. So I take that back, he is blatantly flaunting the rules.

However, your bringing a much bigger issue in on comparison to this. Your discussion was with regards to a WC breaking the rules with how he wore the WC bands.

So when did doing so become cheating?

As for which rules should be discretionary, when does a race commissaire make decisions on who gets a licence or not. Eligibility for attended race through existing licence details yes, ie cat2 racing cat3 race etc. but the federation is who decides who gets a licence and why and also who is banned from a licence or not. Neither would be in relation to a misdemeanor like what jersey you wear or what it looks like. Don’t discredit your own discussion by bringing in irrelevant points, as creditable as they are on their own.

The point i made about bending the rules where its in the interest of fair play would never include a situation where someone cheats so blatantly. Common sense prevails and is applied along with the penalties, unless you want bans for incorrect jerseys?

Totally valid point about the jersey and shorts, well outside the rules even if not exactly more than a misdemeanor. Are the UCI turning a blind eye til the new year maybe? Or totally?

Hopefully they are as it’s a redundant rule and should be removed. By imposing them they are putting commercial rules into the sporting rules and that’s not acceptable. The sport must come first. For clarity I do agree we can’t have every WC wearing whatever WC gear in whatever event but how does it matter if its a solid band, black shorts or a logo breaks it up a bit. It’s a band and you aren’t going to want to hide it once you’ve earned it, despite the usual superstition.

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By: Irish Peloton http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5788 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:30:44 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5788 Not sure where you’re getting the rule of White Shorts Only.

This is not a rule, it is up to the World Champion which colour shorts he wears. Indeed in the only road race Cavendish competed in for HTC since winning in Copenhagen, he decided to wear black shorts.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/paris-tours-1-hc-1/photos/193419

It’s interesting that you mentioned Lance Armstrong and Mario Cipollini as these two riders have both been the subject of the UCI ignoring their own rules when it came to number of days being part of the wherabouts system before their respective comebacks.

Neither of them had been registered with the whereabouts system for enough days before their comebacks but the UCI let them race anyway. Is this a rule which should be at the commisaires discretion in the interest of common sense? Which rules should be absolutely enforced? And which should be discretionary?

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By: wataboutya http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/comment-page-1/#comment-5783 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:10:07 +0000 http://irishpeloton.com/2011/11/1517/#comment-5783 Cormac mentioned the build/design of the jersey as a possible reasoning for the broken bands…

I thought this too, but didnt the old team jersey have a branded name vertically printed on this area?
I almost assumed he was leaving it for his name as per the new Sky jersey he will be wearing, the bands could be deemed to interfere with the sponsors name on a HTC jersey but not a Sky one.

It will be interesting to see what design does take place in 2012.

However, while we are on the subject of UCI rules (or me as it is now ;-})

What about the stupid rule of ‘White Shorts Only’ for WC bands.
How stupid is that. I know Cav wanted traditional black shorts with bands but wasnt allowed as its white only, so he does follow the rules to a certain extent. But have you seen some of the scenes caused by the wearing of white shorts?
How can the UCI say your not allowed to expose yourself for a pee in a public area but its okay to wear near translucent material showing more than you want to see especially when an image of a stage winner means you will see more than normal due to the upright position of an air punch…and it may be used in national press too.

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